Commons:Village pump

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Welcome to the Village pump

This page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. Recent sections with no replies for 7 days and sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=--~~~~}} may be archived; for old discussions, see the archives; the latest archive is Commons:Village pump/Archive/2021/12.

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It can only be speculated that, like the modern office water cooler, the village pump must have been a gathering place where dwellers discussed ideas for the improvement of their locale. [add]
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December 11[edit]

Porn in commons[edit]

Someone please would enlighten me about the status of pornographical images in Commons?

I have noticed several dead proposals (COM:SEX, Commons:Pornography and many linked discussions), and occasional references to various very generic policies about censorship. Despite the vast amount of discussions there is no policy saying yes, porn is allowed, because <reasons> or no, porn is not allowed because <reasons> and the threshold is <this_and_that>. I was thinking of actually linking some of the images here (one can start from here) but I believe many people would be extremely shocked to see those in this open and common discussion. And I guess that is also my point here.

I'd like to request a clear statement here from you (from we all), people. Don't close your eyes and act like it wasn't there. Allow or limit, I don't care which one, but shall be decided, not done by handwaving. Especially for images don't linked from anywhere, just being there for... um... for whatever reason, like there wasn't any porn elsewhere on porn-oriented sites.

I was actually asked about this and these questions have triggered this request.

Thanks for your input, and please: keep discussion civilised. --grin ✎ 11:50, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Porn should de treated like any other content. The only difference is that we are more careful with low quality files and even more strict with unclear sources for personality rights reasons. And there is also a problem with indented spam and vandalism in these topic requiring more attention on all contributions there. --GPSLeo (talk) 12:16, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Should be", I am not really sure whether you mean you are not aware how porn is seen and handled in the current society, or how the legal frameworks of various countries handle it, or you simply chose to ignore that. I can assure you that porn is not like an image of a flower, and there may be legal implications providing that category of imagery to underage persons. (If you really don't know about various laws differentiating pornography then tell me and I will provide you with some examples; not that I want to.)
My question wasn't, I repeat again, why it isn't banned, nor have I complained about handling. My request was specifically to describe this category and its handling, instead of acting like it didn't exist. (If you agree, we can write into the Censorship policy that "pornography is allowed since we believe it would be censorship", so it would be a good basis for debate. <hhok/>)
(Obviously specifically writing down that "porn is allowed without restrictions" will have implications for Commons and Wikipedia generally, but it's not my job to foretell the future. Right now it's in the shadow, and there is nothing guaranteeing that it is going to stay there.) grin ✎ 15:37, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Anything under the slightest suspicion of so-called child-p0rn has to speedied instantenously, uploader blocked and WMF-legal has to be notified. See also {{2257}}. Anything under the suspicion of so-called Revenge porn should also be speedied. --Túrelio (talk) 12:49, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There are large batches of porn images which are not referenced in any articles. Many of those has pretty dubious licenses, like "cc" license from flickr where the flickr account owner has no personal data and his/her email is at a free and usually anonymising provider, basically providing no authority behind the licensor, and most of them are "verified" by a bot. Also it is not clear how Wikipedia (or Commons) follow various laws about protecting of children from improper imagery (for whatever the present governments deem improper). grin ✎ 15:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For the latter issue: we have no means to protect children from disturbing images. That is not restricted to porn, but includes e.g. war imagery, crime scenes and medical images. Technical measures have been discussed, but they are thought to be both ineffective and very problematic. And yes, we do want to document pornography, like any other aspect of modern (and ancient) society. –LPfi (talk) 17:31, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I can imagine the headline: Facebook hacked, millions of pictures stolen. Facebook denies any responsbility.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 10:31, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But more likely one day all the pictures get stored on a server in Chișinău by a contractor hired by facebook. And all of a sudden the contractor breaks all ties with Facebook and keeps the pictures and sells it to somebody else because facebook no longer wants to pay the increased storage fees.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 10:37, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
one day the porn videos made by the current porn stars will enter public domain, so it's a question of time when commons have to decide whether or not their videos should be hosted on commons.
my opinion is that at least one video per performer can be hosted on commons for the purpose of archiving, documentation and illustration. there can be a maximum number of number of files allowed, say 10 or 20, since commons probably shouldnt become a host of indiscriminate collection of all videos/films.--RZuo (talk) 14:13, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 13[edit]

Street art vs Graffiti[edit]

I was trying to clean up the cat Graffiti in London when I noticed there is significant overlap between these two categories, at first i thought it was a case of duplication that has made it's way down the whole local cat structure, but en:wiki has two separate articles for the two concepts. I am having a hard time distinguishing between the two concepts in practice when it comes to categorisation Category:Street art describes it as "Street art is a subset of Public art which denotes unsanctioned artwork in the public space." Category:Graffiti states "This category is for graffiti- and street-art." One of the main differences between the two concepts is public perception, seems too subjective for a category structure. So what is the best way to categorise a spray painted picture on a wall? Oxyman (talk) 14:05, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, IMO the description needs a fix. Street art is legal, Graffiti is not. Yann (talk) 14:16, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Is that the whole difference? As a quick search seems to indicate that street art is often illegal while I have seen a lot of legal graffiti. Graffiti just seems to mean "street paintings" while street art is a whole larger category that includes other forms of street art. At least that is what I suspect based on how "Straatkunst" and "Graffiti" are used in Dutch. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:06, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Old time graffiti
  • I understand the confusion and I wonder if there is a clear difference today. Artists like Category:Banksy are considered "graffiti artists" and "street artists". "Graffiti" was considered defacement in the past and something to be painted over, but now some of it is seen as "politic protest" and "public art". Krok6kola (talk) 19:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, graffiti can be considered "art" (even long ago). There are no doubt various different definitions of "street art". Here on Commons, we make an important distinction between *authorized* (legal) v/s *unauthorized* (illegal), because Commons has to be concerned with complying with copyright laws. In countries without Freedom of Panorama for public murals and similar works (the United States being an important example of such a country), the artist retains copyright to their work... *unless* it was placed illegally, making it "graffiti". -- 18:08, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

December 16[edit]

Open licensed images relating to AI[edit]

Better Images of AI launches a free stock image library of more realistic images of artificial intelligence

Maybe somebody can harvest suitably licensed images from the above project? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Pigsonthewing: Is there any particular reason to believe the project includes any suitably licensed images? - Jmabel ! talk 01:09, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The project prominently displays Wikimedia compatible Creative Commons licenses on the works, like Quantified Human by Alan Warburton. As a Wikimedian I also am a bit skeptical because there are two works in most of these images: the photos and the artistic remixing. Typically designers are not photographers, so we need copyright licenses for both the work and the media which the work is remixing. It is odd that there is no credit to photographers for these. I suppose it would be prudent to write to the artists and ask them about the copyright of the photos, and whether they just licensed them from elsewhere, because photographers do not get credit. These are valuable images which would make good illustrations to popular Wikipedia articles which are hard to illustrate. Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:17, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Given the bona fides of both the organisations and individual artists involved, I see no reason to doubt their copyright and licence statements. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:03, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks a lot for the lead on this Andy. Wikipedia's concept and understanding of copyright is unlike that which is found elsewhere, and I think asking is helpful before being hasty. I wrote to one of the artists to ask both about the copyright of photo versus remixed work, and I also asked about the explanatory text copyright since the CC license does not purport to cover that at all. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:46, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This isn't Wikipedia. I don't think our understanding of copyright is very different from any other valid understanding of it. I'm not proposing that we import any "explanatory text". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:42, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It seems very unlikely that the BBC would be commissioning artists to create stock artwork for others to use without performing due diligence on the copyrights. (And even if the underlying photos weren't by the artists, it seems that the images are adequately transformative in most cases to qualify them as original works rather than derivative works, although I'm not a copyright lawyer.) Nosferattus (talk) 20:10, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The Banana / Plant / Flask images by Max Gruber, at the very least, are almost certainly OK. It looks like he arranged the still lifes and photographed them. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 22:15, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Pigsonthewing: I uploaded the first one if you want to license review it: File:Alan Warburton - Quantified Human.jpg. Nosferattus (talk) 20:08, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 18[edit]

Problem with a Deletion tag that appears on a not-for-deletion page.[edit]

I do not know if this should be here or in the Administrators' noticeboard.

The next comments were copied from this Deletion request, read them, I hope that would be enough to understand, and solve the situation.

Symbol delete vote.svg Delete In the current state of the guidelines(are outdated, a mess and puzzling), they have to be deleted. But if they are kept of still not deleted, then I will clarify them as much as I can, and discourage its use in favor of the guidelines that I wrote. FanNihongo (talk) 05:13, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Note that current deletion tag results Commons:Stroke Order Project/Graphics guidelines also shown a deletion tag, should this page also be nominated for deletion? If not, please apply <noinclude></noinclude>. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:56, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
     Not done Message for the user or admin that comes: No, that page shouldn't be nominated for deletion. I don't know if the tag that appears, affect that page in any way, if it does, then please take care of that, because I don't know how to apply that tag. FanNihongo (talk) 05:51, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FanNihongo (talk) 06:06, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here you go. --HyperGaruda (talk) 08:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. FanNihongo (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Book covers[edit]

Hi, Among the backlog, there is a lot of work here. A big part of these files need a permission, but don't have one. I checked the first 400, there are 7,096 more to be checked, not including the subcategories. Anyone? Yann (talk) 11:16, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:First steps[edit]

Would anyone know why French in not in the list of languages at the bottom? Thanks, Yann (talk) 12:00, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strangely, :fr is also missing in the list (lower left) of links to the corresponding pages on the wikipedias. May be there is wrong linking on Wikidata. --Túrelio (talk) 13:34, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
special:diff/572501368.--RZuo (talk) 14:13, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes. @AntiCompositeNumber: Could you explain why you removed these languages? Thanks, Yann (talk) 16:12, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Creating Wikidata items for all categories[edit]

Hi all. We're about half way through the process of linking Commons categories with Wikidata items - we now have 3.6 million categories displaying the multilingual infobox. I would like to see this increased so that all Commons categories are linked with Wikidata items and use the infobox. This means creating new Wikidata items for the categories where there aren't potential matches with existing Wikidata items.

I've started an RfC about this at: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Creating_new_Wikidata_items_for_all_Commons_categories

Please comment there if you're interested in this! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:04, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For all categories I am not sure, but at least for all people, places, and objects who have a category on Commons, certainly. We have very specific categories for which I don't see the point of having a WD item (e.g. Category:Black and white photographs of California in the 1990s). Yann (talk) 23:29, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Yann: If you didn't know English, a multilingual infobox would be useful in that example. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:12, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Moin Moin, i'm not sure, because many people have a category and then under the main category categories for example by year. I don't know if they need an own Infobox? Regards --Crazy1880 (talk) 17:16, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Multilingual category names could become created with structured data and the Lexemens on Wikidata. Wikidataitems are not made for translations of every page title on Commons. --GPSLeo (talk) 19:33, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Crazy1880: "by year" makes no sense, as I've said for a long time, see for example Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/08/Category:Liam Wyatt by year. But if it must exist, let's at least describe it multilingually, so that those that don't know English can perhaps understand what is going on?
@GPSLeo: Please, go ahead and implement multilingual category names via structured data and lexemes. You will find this to be a very difficult task. But in the long term, you are probably right - but in the short term, let's use what tools we have available right now. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:37, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wikidata was created to serve other Wikimedia websites, this request simply asks for this mission to stop excluding the Wikimedia Commons. Connecting all categories with Wikidata would allow us to utilise the existing navigational infrastructure (or "legacy infrastructure") and use its best aspects in Structured Data for Wikimedia Commons (SDC) rather than forcing it to re-invent the wheel. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:50, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Peel: In theory, this seems a good idea. However, we don't have the manpower to do that in practice. So unless translations of category names could be done automatically, I don't see the point. IMO there are much more important issues to solve first: creating a category and a Creator template for all potential authors, starting with all people who have a Wikipedia article. Then creating a category with {{Wikidata Infobox}} for all places and objects/items which already have a Wikidata entry. Then creating a Wikidata entry for all artworks. Regards, Yann (talk) 22:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would say "build it and they will come" even if it takes many years, solving those other issues aren't mutually exclusive with adding more structured data to the existing category and navigational infrastructures. Accurate machine translations will improve over time and more volunteers will come once the system exists, nobody would want to do something they don't know already exists. We shouldn't try to limit our toolboxes based on the amount of volunteers we have today. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:50, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Using Wikidata to internationalize the category system on Commons is a horrible kludge. And the existing implementation is quite awkward. Here's a random example: Category:Train stations in L’Aquila. The infobox helpfully explains that this is a "Wikimedia category" and then helpfully explains that it is an "Instance of Wikimedia category". You are then given a list of seven links, half of which are completely useless. It's basically just a box of cruft. Until the implementation is cleaned up, I don't think we should be expanding the use Wikidata for Commons categories. Nosferattus (talk) 19:44, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 20[edit]

Something went wrong with Template:China photographs taken on navbox or its transclusions[edit]

I checked Category:China photographs taken on 2021-12-19 just now, only to find that it became a redirect page, and I can't figure out who vandalized it.--N509FZ Talk 前置，有座！Front engine with seats! 11:44, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the problem is caused by this edit.--N509FZ Talk 前置，有座！Front engine with seats! 15:02, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @Soumya-8974 as editor.   — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 15:04, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I converted the category China into a dab page after a CfD, which caused a slew of problems I was trying to fix, including categories which used "China" to mean the People's Republic of China rather than China (region). I have made workarounds to these problems and this caused more problems. Maybe I should treat "China" to mean the country a la the categories of Taiwan. --Soumya-8974 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:11, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Roger that, but those "China photographs taken on " categories are still redirects as of now, so it seems that my previous efforts didn't work. I just don't want the files in that categories to be moved again to that parent categories which don't have regional differences, causing more unnecessary bot works.--N509FZ Talk 前置，有座！Front engine with seats! 17:18, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Probably the technical problem is not just caused by changes in Template:Country label. N509FZ Talk 前置，有座！Front engine with seats! 17:33, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have reverted my recent developments of categories related to China because of the above-mentioned technical problems. I have also make new workarounds on templates to avoid further problems. Soumya-8974 (he) (talk • contribs) 12:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

An image dataset of cleared, x-rayed, and fossil leaves[edit]

This paper:

“An image dataset of cleared, x-rayed, and fossil leaves vetted to plant family for human and machine learning”, in PhytoKeys (in en), volume 187, 16 December 2021, DOI:10.3897/PHYTOKEYS.187.72350, ISSN 1314-2003, Wikidata Q110218751, pages 93-128

describes:

"an open-access database of 30,252 images of vouchered leaf specimens vetted to family level, primarily of angiosperms, including 26,176 images of cleared and x-rayed leaves representing 354 families and 4,076 of fossil leaves from 48 families."

which is available on Figshare under CC by 4.0, with metadata, all spread across seven zip files. Would anyone care to automate their upload? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:20, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dataset is now documented as Image collection and supporting data for: An image dataset of cleared, x-rayed, and fossil leaves vetted to plant family for human and machine learning (Q110219451). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 21[edit]

Queering Wikipedia 2022[edit]

Queering Wikipedia logo wordmark.svg

QW2022 (Queering Wikipedia) is a global conference focused on LGBTQ+ communities and our representation on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects in all languages.

If you are a Commons contributor and LGBTQ+ or a committed ally, please help shape the proposal by providing feedback on what the priorities should be, and how the event should run. You can give anonymous feedback through the survey link below, or by copying the questions and emailing in your responses in plain text.

For a preview of the proposal, add your support, ask questions or even volunteer to join in and make it a success, see:

Visit LGBT to find out more about the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group and the different ways of talking with fellow LGBTQ+ volunteers.

Different words and acronyms are used for communities within the rainbow of sexualities and gender identities/expressions (e.g. lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, asexual, non-binary, two-spirit, third gender, LGBT+, LGBTQ+, LGBTQQ2IA*, QUILTBAG, SOGI). "Queer" is used by us to represent all members of these communities and work toward solidarity for those affected by related discrimination.

Thank you!

QW2022 proposal team --QW22 (talk) 12:52, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Who is "us"? For example FLINTA* is used by people who identify as queer (LINTA*) and people who identify as CIS (FL). Are pan and poly queer? Is Alice Weidel (lesbian woman, member of german parliament, living in Switzerland, with asian partner and child (rainbow family), fluent in chinese because of having lived in China outside of designated ExPat residences) welcome to the conference? --C.Suthorn (talk) 05:58, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As the invitation above is also open to "allies," I presume that they are welcoming anyone with a similar philosophy or view point, regardless of the specific labels used. Personally, this is not something for me, although I support the principle of encouraging participation by under-represented groups. From Hill To Shore (talk) 07:13, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 22[edit]

Delinker[edit]

It looks like the Delinker is "stuck" in terms of moving categories. - Jmabel ! talk 05:11, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to split Judgefloro DR[edit]

COM:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Judgefloro is getting crowded, and likely more files may be nominated as I see some poor quality ones found at Category:Makati City Hall; some do not even show the 3 buildings of the city hall themselves, but surroundings like some random trees or plants and sunsets obscuring surrounding area. I am thinking of nominating some for deletion via user category, though the DR may become overly full. Thus I am proposing to manually split the said DR, similar to Minorax's proposal for COM:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Burj Khalifa.

For this case, all threads related to FOP and DR will be split to another DR: COM:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Judgefloro (FOP and DW), and be categorized accordingly. The rest that is related to COM:SCOPE and COM:WEBHOSTing issues will remain at COM:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Judgefloro.

While the Burj Khalifa proposal was backed by several users, there has been no move made. Also, the action may impact transclusion to archival daily listings, but I think that is no longer relevant for FOP and DW threads in Judgefloro DR as these can be accessed more easily through existing categories than archival listings. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 06:28, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete versus normal deletion[edit]

When you see a speedy-delete that is obviously incorrect, or is incoherent, or contains no valid reason for deletion, can you just remove the speedy-tag, or do you have to go though the regular deletion process? See for example: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Red queen alicia.png --RAN (talk) 20:59, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, If you can prove that the document is OK, then just remove the tag. If you have doubt, then convert the speedy request to a proper DR. Yann (talk) 21:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK, Thanks! --RAN (talk) 22:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 23[edit]

File:Official Photograph of Prime Minister of India Shri Narendra Modi, November 2020 (ISCS version).jpg[edit]

Please look into this version and compare it with File:Official portrait of the Prime Minister Narendra Modi, November 2020 (cropped).jpg. Only websites are different but these are same version. Can this picture be kept as original version and link in all wikimedia projects to Narendra Modi.? Best --TTP1233 (talk) 18:01, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why not? In addition, it is up to projects to decide what photo to use. Ruslik (talk) 20:50, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Upcoming Call for Feedback about the Board of Trustees elections[edit]

The Board of Trustees is preparing a call for feedback about the upcoming Board Elections, from January 7 - February 10, 2022.

While details will be finalized the week before the call, we have confirmed at least two questions that will be asked during this call for feedback:

  • What is the best way to ensure fair representation of emerging communities among the Board?
  • What involvement should candidates have during the election?

While additional questions may be added, the Movement Strategy and Governance team wants to provide time for community members and affiliates to consider and prepare ideas on the above confirmed questions before the call opens. Community members can also organise local conversations during the call. You can find more information about this upcoming call for feedback here.

Best, Zuz (WMF) (talk) 23:44, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 24[edit]

File:Coat of arms of Romania.svg[edit]

Time for a Romanian version?

There’s been some edit-warring on this, with disruptors uploading the Communist-era coat of arms (the one with the rising sun and ears of wheat) instead of the contemporary one (the eagle). Given a) high visibility b) no need for frequent modifications and c) ongoing malfeasance, I suggest some kind of protection. — Biruitorul (talk) 14:12, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Biruitorul: ✓ Done. By the way, we also have a specific noticeboard for this at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections. Multichill (talk) 14:22, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I didn’t know that, but will make use of the board in the future, as needed. — Biruitorul (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting images[edit]

We need to delete images I uploaded when I didnt know what copyright was. I believe these are the images that are copyrighted. The ones that have to do with Space 220 and the one picture of the inside of pecos bill. You can find the images here Kaleeb18TalkCaleb 16:08, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kaleeb18: Hi, and welcome. Please see User talk:Kaleeb18#File:Pecos Bill Dining room.webp.   — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 16:23, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 25[edit]

Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump&oldid=616340490"